Windows, Linux, religion, philosophy and security

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Windows, Linux, religion, philosophy and security

Postby MrGroove » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:09 pm

Splited from : http://www.phpbb-seo.com/boards/the-php ... t3385.html

dcz wrote:
But to continue with the religious comparison, only one of the two is a paid one, so this would mean that linux is a religion and windows a sect :lol:

++


LOL.... Nicely Played.

Hmm... Then again, how do you explain this! -
Microsoft Announces Free Anti-Virus Code Named - Morro :) :)

Perhaps it's the age old secret of giving something away for free the 1st time then charge you for it once your hooked!
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Postby SeO » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:23 am

Would this mean that windows is even more than a sect : a (geek) drug dealer :lol:

More seriously, I'd see this as an attempt to kill the anti virus market, like they already tried to (and almost succeeded) with WMP and IE for media players and browsers.

But it's great if they really put together a good anti virus and free script.
I just hope that it won't be comparable to IE as far as security :mrgreen:
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Postby MrGroove » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:44 pm

Yup yup yup. Agreed. Good topic for discussion. Perhaps this is a good place to split the discussion into a new Topic :)

I agree up to the point of the IE Security flaws. It reminds me of the common misconception that you don't need AV on a MAC because it's secure. <warning - MrGroove's Security Button was pushed>

I think what it really comes down to is Market Penetration. If you think about it, if your a bad guy and you want to infect as many people as possible, who are you going to target? A small Linux / Apple market that make up 1-2% of the computer market OR, the Windows platform that makes up 80-90%?

I think that's the primary misconception. People think the MAC, Firefox, Safari etc. is secure because there are fewer virus's released for it and they "think" fewer security flaws found. However, in reality what we are seeing is that as the popularity grows for these platforms, the bad guys are starting to ramp up attacks on them as well.

For instance, earlier in the year during a security showdown, it was the MAC which fell first followed by the Vista machine however only because the MAC code exploit was also available on the Vista box.

I guess my point is, nothing is secure and given enough time, all code will have it's exploits. Is one platform more secure than another, I really don't think so (however MS SQL probably has one of the best records to date). It all comes down to motivation AND, making the other guy's house more appealing :)
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Postby MrGroove » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:47 pm

Hey look, Steve Jobs just proved my point!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/02 ... av_advice/
For the first time, Apple is recommending the use of anti-virus tools to protect Mac systems.

Long something of a phantom menace, strains of malware capable of infecting Mac machines have gradually been increasing in prevalence over recent months. In addition, VXers are making more use of web-based attack and applications specific vulnerabilities to infect PCs whatever their underlying operating system might be.



:)
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Postby SeO » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:36 am

Agreed.
That's something I often remind to phpBB users, phpBB was the most hacked software because it was the most used, and even more, the most badly used (eg with weak mods or not maintained up to date).
But, I as well always add when talking about phpBB security that the last time I saw phpBB.com hacked was couple years ago and actually due to an awstat security leak, not a phpBB one.

So of course, all OS are vulnerable for people with enough skills. And if on one hand, many windows (and phpBB actually) exploit where only due to script kiddies reproducing methods made (and many time packaged into a software) by the few capable ones, we cannot really say that windows was really paying attention to security in the early ages and that it did not carry stupid leaks for a long time among updates.
For sure, things have started to become better with win2k, XP and vista (even though I really do not like it).
Linux Os where just a lot stronger from the beginning, even though this may not have made a real difference for really skilled hackers.

About IE, version older than 7 (eg up to IE6) are really not well secured, IE7 is better, but did not pas the ACID test, so we cannot really say that all was done to lower the risks.
I'm not an ACID integrist and I know how standardized test can be wrong sometime, but still, it's odd to see that such a big corporation fails to follow agreed standards (like the w3c) where others do it with a lot less means.
A concrete example of the type of weirdness that can be found in IE was recently pointed by the phpBB group : http://www.phpbb.com/blog/2008/10/25/at ... -explorer/

I mean, I don't know of any other browser with a dedicated html commented tag (if IE) to allow webmaster to fix the way it interprets the W3C!
Could be seen as "we where unable to do better, but we allowed you to try", even though it's still kind from them to have let us way to do this.

So I agree with the fact that we must take into account the market when talking about a software, I even sometime wonder if some AV software developer where never tempted to participate into building exploits since it would after all be good for their business, but we still must not forget that among all OS, windows originally was among the weakest.

It's of course better with vista, even though I wonder if someone made it to hack a windows machine with a simple .wav, since you can now speak with your pc, something like your voice telling "format c:" :lol:
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